Talking to people about their perceptions of the world, about their personal experiences, about their beliefs, their interpretations of the Truth, their failures and triumphs, in other words about their subjective world is never easy. Listening to and understanding a narrative requires not just your interest and curiosity but a genuine respect and openness from your side. It is an art that comes only with great practice and time and even then, often, words and language are never really enough.
I am only a beginner.
My interest lies in understanding the role of the Guru in a disciple’s life and I have undertaken 16 interviews with spiritual practitioners of 4 different Ashrams. They have all been associated with their respective Ashrams at least for 25 to 30 years.
Talking to people about their Gurus and their spiritual journeys has been immensely inspiring and rewarding. My participants have opened up my world in a way that I could have never thought possible especially while pursuing a so called “research project.” I feel a simple and sincere connection with most of them. Somehow they easily found a way into my heart and I think they will remain there for a long, long time.
I encountered many setbacks, fears, doubts, and made many mistakes while conducting the interviews. Some of these were easy to resolve, with others I am still struggling. Sometimes I was quick to learn from my mistakes whereas at other times I was not even aware that I was erring. Conducting a good, narrative interview is tough and it can never really be perfect.
Listed below are some of the confusions I went through while pursuing the interviews. They are taken out form the field notes I wrote during my stay at the different Ashrams.
- I am speaking to people who have spent years pursuing their personal sadhana. Am I (a novice) capable of really comprehending their journeys?
- Spiritual experiences, spiritual journeys are often advised to be kept secret. How can I help them open up and share at least some of their personal experiences?
- I come from a radically different spiritual/ philosophical background… will I be able to understand their philosophy and their spirituality?
- I have a Guru of my own. How do I respect and open up to their Gurus? If I am not open, how can I expect them to really share and be open about their Guru and their journey?
- Am I being unfaithful to my Guru if the stories told by the participants about their Gurus deeply touch my heart?
- How to get rid of the feeling that my Guru is better than theirs?
- My interviewees are intelligent people. They can read my face, understand from where my question arises and they answer accordingly. So the quality and truthfulness of the answers will depend on my honesty and interest. The more genuine I am the more truthful will the interviews be.
- At the time of the interview I have to be open like a kid and really listen to the story being told.
Here is an extract from the field notes that I wrote after my second interview. It shows clearly how manipulative I was, and how I was trying to get the “right” answers, and then I realized how futile that turned out to be.
“I want certain answers in a certain way — I re-ask the question and try my best to bring out the answers in the shape and tone I want them in. I have a certain map already made in my head and I want to fit everything into it. What I should do instead is to be ready and open to make a new map every time… The language and background is often very different of the respondent and myself. We try and bring a balance and try and understand each other but in doing this (trying to make a somewhat readable map) the depth of the sharing takes a back seat.
In order to really understand the other — I must be silent from within. Deep thoughts, experiences, feelings can only be understood in a respectful Silence. Language is incapable of getting the essence.”
Here is another extract after the 5th interview (I think I had already learnt some of the lessons):
“Some of them completely did not answer some of the questions. I did not push them, did not try to force them into replying. I did not put words into their mouth, did not try to interpret immediately and translate into my language and understanding. I just let it flow…. ”
To sum up and illustrate the sheer difficulty of conducting a good qualitative interview here is an incident that took place in the Ramana Maharshi Ashram. I had been gently pestering a 90 year old sadhak to grant me an interview. He kept telling me “Come tomorrow.” On the day I was leaving he saw me and said,
“Ah, your interview! Ok, I am ready but remember, ‘That Self which is in you; that Self which is in me; that Self which is in all — feel that Self and then ask your questions.’”
What could I ask then? Nothing!
I forgot to explain when I said “I fail to warm up as I should” that i was talking about the need to warm up before going for a fast walk in the morning. sorry:>)
Hi Divya;
I really admire the openness (and self-awareness) with which you explore what you consider to be your “mistakes.” I was trained in qualitative research during my masters training; I recognize your struggles very well.
i think you expressed the answer with #8: “I have to be open like a kid”. I think the other side of this is being “open” to recognizing our limitations – that we are not open in so many ways. This is really the key – once I realize that I can’t be perfectly open like a kid, I can aspire for that openness and at each moment, (potentially) recognize when I am not being open, and how I might open – let go of preconceptions, prejudgments, etc – a bit more.
As I write this, it occurs to me, this is a bit like working with mindfulness and pain (I’m keeping in mind Matthijs’ last post, about different ways of making use of Indian psychology. A lot of mindfulness and pain work starts with the pragmatic, but if you follow it deeper, it can lead you – if you have the openness of a kid!! – to the paradigmatic change).
I’ve worked with others, but let me describe working my own physical pain. Let’s say it’s painful sensations in my right knee (something that has been occurring recently – as I repeatedly fail to warm up as much as I should:>)). I may be starting with the pragmatic – i would like to lessen the pain. But I release that desire, recognizing it and letting it go (not “bypassing” or suppressing). As I continue to observe calmly, I see that the physical sensation is accompanied by impulses to resist, avoid, get rid of the pain, by emotional reactions of dislike, and by vague memories of past pain associated with the sensation.
I continue to just “be with” the sensations. if I persist long enough, and keep recognizing my resistance to just being with it, there may be a moment where the sense of “me” here watching the pain and the “pain” there as an object may start to diminish. Suddenly, there is a kind of direct knowing; and a recognition that the “me” and the “pain” are intimately co-related.
Almost invariably, when this direct intimate knowledge arises, the ordinary physical sensation of pain diminishes, or changes dramatically.
It is quite remarkable that people with no experience or knowledge of meditation or yoga can get to this point quite quickly at times.
I think, perhaps, possibly? if you reflect on how this applies to interviewing people – just watching, just listening but at the same time recognizing – calmly, without judgment – your own preconceptions, and noticing how they subtly affect people’s responses, and gently letting them go, it may bring up many surprises.
Ultimately, I think a truly qualitative and yogic approach may help transform present day academic psychology in a way that could surprise us all!
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for this wonderful insight… i knew something of it but you have put it so clearly in your words, especially the last but one paragraph. Though it is an extremely tough exercise… i am still going to try it!
The thing is this whole process of taking the interviews has been almost like a sadhana! 🙂 and though i have made mistakes there have also been moments of great discoveries and fulfillment!
But i am going to try my best to put into practice what you suggested… and who knows… perhaps some magical surprises might just take place! 🙂
Thank you!
I really enjoyed experiencing your journey through these beautiful insights. The reflections are so true and pertinent to our journeys as well !! 🙂